f11 Regenerari foarte frecvente

[Alex313]

Problema cred ca e de soft…. Fara dpf pe masina, dar toti senzorii conectati in mufe soot creste la fel de repede ca atunci cand era dpf pe masina. (0.15 gr pe km )

care e explicatia? Senzorul de diferenta de presiune era atarnat in mufa, masura aer…

[bimmer90f30]

2 hours ago, Alex313 said:

Problema cred ca e de soft…. Fara dpf pe masina, dar toti senzorii conectati in mufe soot creste la fel de repede ca atunci cand era dpf pe masina. (0.15 gr pe km )

care e explicatia? Senzorul de diferenta de presiune era atarnat in mufa, masura aer…

Tu glumesti? 

Vrei, cauti un raspns la asa intrebare in contextul dat?

[bimmer90f30]

11 hours ago, srb_alex said:

Temperaturile scad/cresc in functie de cat de inchis/deschis este egr-ul, pe autostrada de exemplu daca mergi peste 3000 rpm temperatura scade la 80 gen.

El intreaba, cred despre temperatura din filtru nu temperatura motorului.

Nici un motor nu are evacuarea mai rece de 150-200 grade poatechiar 300 de grade.

Regenerea are loc la 600 de grade.

[Alex313]

1 hour ago, bimmer90f30 said:

Tu glumesti? 

Vrei, cauti un raspns la asa intrebare in contextul dat?

Nu, nu glumesc

senzorul de diferenta de presiune scos din dpf, lasat sa atarne sa masoare aer. De ce se incarca dpf?

Nu are logica, de la update de soft din 2023 au aparut si problemele. 
Daca elementul care masoara incarcarea ar trebui sa arate 0 difernta presiune, ar trebui sa dea eroare nu sa incarce filtrul. Gresesc ?

[srb_alex]

15 minutes ago, Alex313 said:

Nu, nu glumesc

senzorul de diferenta de presiune scos din dpf, lasat sa atarne sa masoare aer. De ce se incarca dpf?

Nu are logica, de la update de soft din 2023 au aparut si problemele. 
Daca elementul care masoara incarcarea ar trebui sa arate 0 difernta presiune, ar trebui sa dea eroare nu sa incarce filtrul. Gresesc ?

Bine ca ai gasit problema!

1 hour ago, bimmer90f30 said:

El intreaba, cred despre temperatura din filtru nu temperatura motorului.

Nici un motor nu are evacuarea mai rece de 150-200 grade poatechiar 300 de grade.

Regenerea are loc la 600 de grade.

A intrebat de temperatura gazelor dupa racitorul de gaze.

[bimmer90f30]

20 minutes ago, Alex313 said:

Nu, nu glumesc

senzorul de diferenta de presiune scos din dpf, lasat sa atarne sa masoare aer. De ce se incarca dpf?

Nu are logica, de la update de soft din 2023 au aparut si problemele. 
Daca elementul care masoara incarcarea ar trebui sa arate 0 difernta presiune, ar trebui sa dea eroare nu sa incarce filtrul. Gresesc ?

deci mai intreb o data, masina mai are DPF?

Ca sa stim o treaba.

[Alex313]

Da, dar senzorul era scos din el ( euro 6 are 2 intrari la senzor ) am tras furtunasele afata din tevi si le.am lasat atarnate. Senzorul nu avea ce sa masoare. Si ca sa ma distrez pana la capat, cu senzorul scos am dat resetare dpf si senzor. A luat 0.5 grame in 3 km. Mie ceva imi da cu virgula

[bimmer90f30]

On 5/28/2025 at 6:12 AM, Alex313 said:

Am cautat peste tot, manualul masinii, auto data, am intrebat un mecanic de la bmw, nimeni nu spune: Da, e normal la x afara sau y oras.

Mecanicul de la BMW trebuia sa stie:

Diesel particulate filter

In order to comply with the particulate emissions required in the exhaust emissions legislation (EURO5, EURO6, EURO7), the vehicle is equipped with a diesel particulate filter.

The filter housing of the filter contains the oxidation catalytic converter and the actual diesel particulate filter. The oxidation catalytic converter is mounted upstream of the diesel particulate filter.

Depending on the equipment installed, a nitrogen oxide catalytic converter can also be installed instead of the oxidation catalytic converter.        Aici vorbeste despre masinile cu uree, adica injectia cu Adblu. 

A metal substrate coated with platinum and palladium is used for the oxidation catalytic converter. The diesel particulate filter itself consists of a permeable-walled ceramic monolith which is also coated with platinum and palladium.

Notice!

The description of the diesel particulate filter is based on the engine N47D20O1, US version. In principle, the description applies to all other diesel engines with diesel particulate filter.

Notice!

On other models, only an exhaust gas pressure sensor may be installed.

The Digital Diesel Electronics (DDE) controls the regeneration of the diesel particulate filter on the basis of the signal from the differential pressure sensor and exhaust gas temperature sensor. The differential pressure sensor measures the pressure in the exhaust emission system upstream and also downstream of the diesel particulate filter. If the exhaust gas pressure exceeds the permissible value of 750 mbar excess pressure, the Digital Diesel Electronics initiates the regeneration of the diesel particulate filter (loading of diesel particulate filter exceeded).

A metal membrane in the differential pressure sensor converts the exhaust back pressure into a displacement. which is converted into a voltage signal by 4 pressure-sensitive resistors. The measuring range of the exhaust gas pressure sensor is -0.05 to 1.0 bar absolute; this corresponds to a voltage of 0.875 to 4.5 volts.

The differential pressure sensor is connected via a 3-pin plug connection.

The sensor is supplied with 5 Volts by the engine control.

Exhaust-gas temperature sensor upstream of oxidation catalytic converter and exhaust-gas temperature sensor upstream of diesel particulate filter

Under certain operating conditions, the throttle valve throttles the intake air. In combination with 1 to 2 post injections, this leads to an increase in the exhaust-gas temperature (regeneration of the diesel particulate filter). The purpose of the exhaust-gas temperature sensor is to control the exhaust-gas temperature during cyclical regeneration.

A temperature-dependent electrical resistor is used for temperature sensing. The circuit contains a voltage divider where the resistance can be measured depending on the temperature. A temperature is converted using a characteristic curve specific to the sensor. An NTC resistor (NTC) is installed in the exhaust temperature sensor, whose resistance value drops when the temperature increases. The resistance changes from 96 kΩ to 32 Ω depending on temperature, which corresponds to a temperature of -40 °C to 800 °C.

System functions:

Strategy regeneration of diesel particulate filter

As the diesel particulate filter has a limited capacity for loading with soot, the diesel particulate filter must be regenerated regularly. For this reason, the engine control unit determines the soot load on the diesel particulate filter. Regeneration begins when a specific limit of soot loading is exceeded.

The start of regeneration depends on the following parameters:

differential pressure in the diesel particulate filter

driving profile since the last regeneration

In order to oxidise the soot which has collected inside the diesel particulate filter, the exhaust-gas temperature must be raised to 580°C. Measures are integrated in the engine control to ensure that the exhaust temperature can be increased under all conditions.

Parameters adjusted and measured by the engine control via sensors as follows:

Mass air flow sensor

Coolant temperature sensor

Crankshaft sensor

Intake air temperature sensor

Ambient pressure sensor

Charging pressure sensor

Differential pressure sensor, diesel particulate filter

Exhaust-gas temperature sensor upstream of oxidation catalytic converter

Exhaust temperature sensor upstream of diesel particulate filter

Fuel pressure sensor

Gear engaged

Driving speed

Fill level in the fuel tank

Operation of the diesel particulate filter

Analysis of the differential pressure or exhaust gas pressure in the diesel particulate filter

The diesel particulate filter is equipped with a differential pressure sensor which continually monitors the current pressure difference. The soot load in the diesel particulate filter is determined on the basis of the differential pressure and the calculated exhaust gas mass flow.

The input variables are:

Exhaust gas mass flow (calculated on the basis of the measured air mass flow, the mass flow of the exhaust-gas recirculation and the fuel injection rate)

Exhaust-gas temperature before diesel particulate filter

Absolute internal pressure in the diesel particulate filter (calculated from the model for pressure in the exhaust emission system, the ambient pressure sensor and the differential pressure sensor or exhaust gas pressure sensor)

Analysis of the driving profile since the last regeneration

The DDE monitors the distance driven since the last regeneration. On the basis of this driving profile, a maximum distance travelled is calculated, after which distance, regeneration is activated.

The input variables are:

Heat-up of the diesel particulate filter

Regeneration of the diesel particulate filter

In regeneration mode, the diesel particulate filter is heated up. When the warm-up phase is completed, regeneration is started at a coolant temperature of over 60°C.

Warm-up phase:

In the warm-up phase, the input variables are changed to achieve a heat-transmitting reaction in the diesel particulate filter. To do this, the air mass is reduced and the maximum point of combustion raised to achieve an increased exhaust-gas temperature.

Input variables are:

Air mass

Exhaust-gas recirculation rate

Charging pressure

Quantity and time of main injection and post-injection

Air swirl in the combustion chamber

When the temperature of the diesel particulate filter rises to above 400°C, switchover from warm-up phase mode to regeneration mode is effected.

Regeneration:

In regeneration mode, the input variables are changed so that the exhaust-gas temperatures continue to rise to 580°C. This increase is achieved by a further reduction of the air mass and a further delay in combustion.

To achieve this, the following input variables are changed:

Air mass

The setpoint value of the air mass is calculated via the engine speed and the fuel injection rate. The setpoint value is adjusted in dependence on the ambient pressure to ensure stable combustion at various heights above sea level.

Exhaust-gas recirculation rate

The desired exhaust-gas recirculation rate is calculated on the basis of the engine speed and the fuel injection rate. In dependence on the ambient pressure and the intake air temperature, the setpoint value is adjusted so that stable combustion is ensured at various heights above sea level and at low temperatures.

Charging pressure

The desired charging pressure is also calculated on the basis of the engine speed and the fuel injection rate. The setpoint value for the charging pressure depends on the ambient pressure and the intake air temperature. It is set in such a way that at low temperature, stable combustion is possible and the maximum speed of the exhaust turbocharger is not exceeded.

Fuel injection pressure

The desired fuel injection pressure depends on the engine speed and the fuel injection rate.

Quantity and time of main injection and post-injection

Adjustments are made at low ambient pressure to ensure that the maximum permissible temperature for the exhaust turbocharger is not exceeded.

Air swirl in the combustion chamber

The setpoint value for the position of the swirl flap is calculated on the basis of the engine speed and the fuel injection rate.

Switch-off strategy for regeneration

Regeneration is only possible within defined limits for the coolant temperature, the exhaust-gas temperature and the ambient pressure. The cleansing effect of the diesel particulate filter is also maintained outside these limits. There is therefore no influence on the exhaust emissions.

The limits for switch-off of regeneration are defined as follows:

Coolant temperature between 60 °C and 110 °C

The lower limit for the coolant temperature is necessary to ensure stable combustion. The upper limit protects the engine against thermal destruction.

Exhaust-gas temperature between 220°C and 690°C upstream of the oxidation catalytic converter

The lower limit for the exhaust-gas temperature is necessary to achieve an adequate heat-generating reaction in the oxidation catalytic converter and in the diesel particulate filter. The upper limit for the exhaust-gas temperature protects the oxidation catalytic converter and the diesel particulate filter against excessive thermal load. The upper limit can only be exceeded in the event of engine malfunction.

Exhaust-gas temperature between 220°C and 670°C upstream of the diesel particulate filter

The lower limit for the exhaust-gas temperature is necessary to achieve an adequate heat-generating reaction in the oxidation catalytic converter and in the diesel particulate filter. The upper limit for the exhaust-gas temperature protects the oxidation catalytic converter and the diesel particulate filter against excessive thermal load. The upper limit can only be exceeded in the event of engine malfunction.

Ambient pressure greater than 0.6 bar

At lower ambient pressures, the maximum permissible speed of the exhaust turbocharger is exceeded and regeneration is therefore blocked."

Daca mecanicul ala de la BMW nu stie ce srie mai sus, el nu e mecanic de BMW.

Textul e dim BMW TIS pentru Euro 6.

Traducem acum ca sa intelegem?

 

Edited Friday at 07:32 PM by bimmer90f30

[sskkaa]

1 hour ago, Alex313 said:

Nu, nu glumesc

senzorul de diferenta de presiune scos din dpf, lasat sa atarne sa masoare aer. De ce se incarca dpf?

Nu are logica, de la update de soft din 2023 au aparut si problemele. 
Daca elementul care masoara incarcarea ar trebui sa arate 0 difernta presiune, ar trebui sa dea eroare nu sa incarce filtrul. Gresesc ?

O diagnoza la o reprezentanta BMW ai facut?

[Alex313]

The start of regeneration depends on the following parameters:

differential pressure in the diesel particulate filter

driving profile since the last regeneration
 

daca diferenta de presiune masurata de senzor este constanta 0, de ce se incarca filtrul ?

Ce ai pus tu acolo este principiul de functionare si regenerare dpf, nimic din ce nu stiam…

Pt intrebarea mea tot cu exista raspuns…. 
Din ce observ, indiferent ce citeste senzorul, masina incarca “virtual” filtrul, am curat galerie si racitor degeaba… 

Edited Friday at 07:37 PM by Alex313

[trafycante]

Am fost la cineva pentru o diagnoza mai amanuntita si a reiesit asta, mie mi se pare ok

 

Dynamic test of intake gas temperature and pressure sensors
The difference between the intake air temperature and charge air temperature is *OK.*
The dynamic behaviour of the exhaust gas pressure upstream of the turbine is *OK.*


-Throttle dynamic test:
The measured values were *OK* .


-Dynamic air pressure test:
Functional check finished.
The setpoint values were reached.
The percentage deviations of the measured air mass to the calculated air mass were evaluated.
A negative deviation means the measured air mass is too low.

At speed level: Actual value Minimum limit value Maximum limit value
1500 1/min -1.8 % -12 % 12 %
2500 1/min 2.4 % -12 % 12 %
3500 1/min 8.8 % -12 % 12 %

Absolute differences:
• Speed level 1: -1.7 kg/h
• Speed level 2: 3.8 kg/h
• Speed level 3: 19.5 kg/h
*Ok*

-Dynamic test of the EGR cooler gas diversion secondary circuit:
Functional check finished.
The increase in the exhaust temperature is OK.
The exhaust-gas recirculation cooler bypass flap is working. *OK!*

-Dynamic EGR gas cooler efficiency test:
Limit values for the exhaust flow through the exhaust-gas recirculation cooler:
No sooting: over 90 %
Minor sooting: 85 % up to 90 %
Moderate sooting: 80 % up to 85 %
Severe sooting: under 80 %
Actual exhaust flow value through the exhaust-gas recirculation cooler:103.5 %
Determined degree of sooting in the exhaust-gas recirculation cooler:No sooting
Measure:
The measured values of the functional check are OK. *No fault found.*

-Dynamic test intake manifold flaps:
The functional check is finished.
Setpoint values for the engine speed variations:
• Lower limit for the minimum value: -30
• Upper limit for the maximum value: 30
The evaluation of the engine speed variations for the three speed levels produced the following results:
Speed level 1: OK
Engine speed variations:
Minimum value: -5.0
Maximum value: 2.5
Speed level 2: OK
Engine speed variations:
Minimum value: -3.5
Maximum value: 2.5
Speed level 3: OK
Engine speed variations:
Minimum value: -2.5
Maximum value: 7.0

*All functional checks were OK, therefore there is no indication of a sooted intake area.*

-Injector correction test, measurement made at: 93.6 degrees Celsius
The correction fuel injection rate for all injectors is OK.

Minimum and maximum correction fuel injection rates from the smooth running regulator in [ mg/Hub]:
• Cylinder 1: -1.0 | 0.0
• *Cylinder 3: 0.0 | 0.6*
• *Cylinder 4: 0.0 | 0.7*
• Cylinder 2: -0.3 | 0.0

The exhaust gas pressure test was trouble-free. The diesel particulate filter is *OK.*
The exhaust gas pressure sensor is *OK.*

[Alex313]

Ne chinuim degeaba, problema este clar din soft

Daca vad aici pe forum oameni care au schimbat galerie, racitor, dpf, senzor diferenta presiune si tot face regenerari la 80 km. 
toate care fac asa au fost resoftate in garantie

[bimmer90f30]

18 minutes ago, Alex313 said:

daca diferenta de presiune masurata de senzor este constanta 0, de ce se incarca filtrul ?

Cum adica de ce se incarca filtrul? Motorul nu e pornit, nu e firesc sa se incarce? 

Ce intrebarea e aia?

Fara suparare in chestiuni complexe; ca sa stabilim, ce se i tampla in si pe langa DPF nu e complex, e extrem de complex. Complex in sensul ca su t monitorizate multe aspecte si mult mai multe decat doi senzori scosi! Intrebarea ta.., prin care faci experiente cu senzori scosi.. sa te astepti sa se intample nu's ce, ...si sa incerci sa si explici altora ce ai experimentat.. si ai inteles tu sigur.. e cam greu, greu de tot../ pentru ca nu stiu altii mai experimentati si crezi ca o sa intelegi din doi senzori scosi si doua ture pe strada.. ce se intampla...

(Daca le stiai pe alea de mai sus insemna ca stii si ce se intampla.. nu?)

Uite o sa sterg postarea ca.. ori imi pare mie ca nu pui intrebarea potrivita ori nu intelegi fenomenul.. dar insisti ca il intelegi..

 

 

 

18 minutes ago, Alex313 said:

Ce ai pus tu acolo este principiul de functionare si regenerare dpf, nimic din ce nu stiam…

Pai cand ceva NU functioneaza cu. crezi tu, regenerari prea dese, da? nu la principiu asta de functionare pleci?

 

 

 

Edited Friday at 07:55 PM by bimmer90f30

[Alex313]

Nu ne intelegem ori e de vina ora, ori renunt.

Primul aspect care determina gradul de incarcare dpf este diferenta de presiune intre intrare si iesire. Daca acel senzor masoara constant 0 diferenta ar trebui sa creada ori ca filtrul nu se incarca, ori ca ceva nu este bune si sa dea eroare. Nu se intampla nici a nici b… acum intelegi la ce ma refer?

[sskkaa]

6 hours ago, trafycante said:

@sskkaadap, ai dreptate, insa am schimbat senzor presiune diferentiala, DPF, sonde lambda, releu+buji si degeaba. Pe Toate le-am pus NOI si OEM, in afara de DPF care a fost sh

E clar ca fluctuatiile alea de soot mass nu prea au cum sa fie de la.ceva fizic  decat de la soft, sau chiar de la unu din senzori, chiar daca sunt noi si nu au erori, sa nu citeasca ceva corect. Eu as recomanda sa expui problema la o reprezentanta cu diagnoza calumea. Sigur pot face o diagnoza in timp real sa vada ce determina fluctuatiile alea, cand sare de la x la y grame.

Ciudata speta oricum. Sper sa i dai de capat.

[trafycante]

Am gasit pe yt un clip, face exact ca la mine, insa nu are comentarii

 

[Alex313]

@sskkaa @trafycante si la reprezentanta depinde de noroc, daca dai de unu care nu are chef de munca o sa zica, schimba x y z si vedem dupa.

Cauta pe cineva care stie bmw si are service sau e particular, daca e platit direct isi va da interesul sa iti rezolve problema, daca e le salariu il va durea in pix de masina ta.

 

stiu exemplu clar din repr. bmw cu un hibrid la care trebuia schimbata o piesa din cutie (motorul electric este in cutie) si pt ca nu avea chef sa munceasca 2 zile sa desfaca toata cutia a dat de inlocuit cutia complet, pe vremea aia era undeva peste 10.000 euro (macar a fost inlocuit pe garantie ).

@trafycante 

eu as incerca sa pun softul vechi al masinii ( cel din 2020, nu 2023 cum ai acum) 

 

[trafycante]

Astept sa vina senzorul de temperatura de pe EGR, sa il schimb, poate se rezolva. Mi am adus aminte ca atunci cand am luat masina, aveam eroare pe senzorul acela si pe sondele lambda. Aparea eroare dupa fiecare regenerare. L-am dat jos, l am curatat si a disparut eroarea si am uitat de el intre timp

[Alex313]

M.ai facut curios acum

eu am pus 3 senzori diferiti si toti aratau aceeasi valoare.

[trafycante]

Pana vine senzorul, am scos mufa la debitmetru, scade soot mass foarte mult si repede. L-am dat jos sa il curat, avea funingine si niste scame fix pe lita.

[srb_alex]

51 minutes ago, trafycante said:

Pana vine senzorul, am scos mufa la debitmetru, scade soot mass foarte mult si repede. L-am dat jos sa il curat, avea funingine si niste scame fix pe lita.

Asta voiam sa-ti scriu, ca mai ai de inlocuit debitmetrul si ai inlocuit tot.

[bimmer90f30]

4 hours ago, trafycante said:

Am gasit pe yt un clip, face exact ca la mine, insa nu are comentarii

 

Eu vad ca spune ceva. Spune ca, cantitatea de soot variaza in functie de acceleratie. Asta fiind doar o constatare a celui ce vrea sa urmareasca cantitatea de soot .. ca i-a spus cineva ca aia declanseaza regenerarea.

Problema ramane petru toti INTELEGEREA acelei cantitati de soot prin intermediul senzorului de presiune diferentiala. O spun chiar ei, iata citez din textul postat de mine mai sus:

"The diesel particulate filter is equipped with a differential pressure sensor which continually monitors the current pressure difference. The soot load in the diesel particulate filter is determined on the basis of the differential pressure and the calculated exhaust gas mass flow."

Ce inseamna asta?

Inseamna ca senzorul ce masoara presiunea diferentiala trebuie sa fie functional si in parametri! Iar calcularea circularii gazelor de evacuarre este dat tot de acest senzor prin intermediul diferentei de presiune anticipate, percepute daca vreti..

Ce NU spun ei e ca un filtru ce are cenusa depusa in  timp va acumula acum mai putin soot iar regenerarile vor fi mai dese. Pentru ca senzorul de presiune diferentiala va masura tot de la UN minim (dat acum de prezenta cenusii) la UN (acelasi) maxim diferenta de presiune; inca o data, minimul e mai mare iar maximul e acelasi cand trebuie sa porneasca obligatoriu regenerarea. Pentru ca daca nu atunci va limitat puterea motorului punand masina in protectie. Asta e situatia clasica de imbatranire a filtrului pana cand trebuie inlocuit, resetat, schimbat senzori. Asta desigur facand parte dintr-un ALGORITM. Algoritm care probabil influienteaza si raportarea la filtru INDIFERENT de cati senzori schimbam la un moment dat, daca nu inlocium filtrul.. 

Acum, ca alti senzori de temperatura, cum e cel de la EGR, .. iesit din parametri, poate declansa regenerari, asta probabil e de inteles ca vine din complexitatea implementata de ei in sistem de monitorizare a filtrului.

Edited Saturday at 09:00 AM by bimmer90f30

[trafycante]

2 minutes ago, srb_alex said:

Asta voiam sa-ti scriu, ca mai ai de inlocuit debitmetrul si ai inlocuit tot.

Parca vad ca inlocuiesc si ala si masina zice: hold my beer

[srb_alex]

Cu mufa scoasa de la debitmetru masina merge mai bine sau mai prost?

[trafycante]

@bimmer90f30 filtrul original al masinii avea 238.000, am zis ok, o fi plin, l am trimis la curatat, s a curatat cu succes, l am montat pe masina si la fel facea.

bun, am luat filtru sh de pe o masina cu 68.000 km, l am pus, la fel face.

de aici exclud din start filtrul de particule, probabil chiar asa trebuie sa mearga, cu regenerari dese si sunt eu paranoia. Dar ma obisnuisem cu vechiul N47, care la 400.000 km isi facea regenerari la 230-250 km de mers in oras

2 minutes ago, srb_alex said:

Cu mufa scoasa de la debitmetru masina merge mai bine sau mai prost?

Nu am sesizat vreo schimbare, insa, nu am check engine aprins dar pe tester apare eroare de debitmetru si inca una legat de  admisie